ThoughtfulChaos

hi guys, just posting a reply i’d left on rashmi’s site. hope it helps. regards and wishes, andrew

hi rashmi, i am a current student at iipm and i have read jammag, your site, other blogs and frankly, i feel you have given very biased comments from your side about iipm.

i have also heard from an iipm faculty that even your firm has received a legal court notice about this case. somehow, i appreciated that a lot because the reality is, not only iipm students across india, but even our alumnii is pretty convinced about you have not researched the truth about iipm. we’ve been here for an year and we really know the amount of effort that iipm takes. but despite iipm having such a massive effort on ensuring the highest quality of academics and infrastructure and placements (and of course, despite daring to think beyond…; a statement which peeves of many from a particular bunch of institutes) a very one-sided viewpoint from you and some other bloggers - some of whom are iim passouts - seem steeped in blogging utterly wrong information. all you need to do is to walk in yourself to any iipm campus and ask any student about what is iipm.

frankly, have you personally visited any iipm campus and on the campus talked to faculty or student? you yourself would accept you personally have never visited any iipm campus. i repeat “on the campus” because you have never done that yourself. it seems that your junior journalist - who might have been part time - has gone really overboard with inexperience in journalism.

further, if there is an institute that dares to think beyond iims, u of course would have read the various news articles from iipm where iipm actually extolls the virtues of iims being there and being benchmarks in management. show me one article where any iipm faculty has said that iims are bad. the fact is that we are really thankful there are institutes like iims that are world benchmarks.

if iipm cannot dare to think beyond the iims, what is the information being passed out to us. never dare? that seems one-sided. at least for once, do not be so one sided.
and seriously, at least now, please do visit any campus and on the campus talk to faculty and students instead of just keeping on referring to blogs and emails, which anyways have no credibily (not even this post should be taken for granted, pleas confirm yourself).
because finally it’s not about a war where you believe you are fighting against iipm, it’s about realizing that there is an institution that at least is contributing with a lot of sincere and dedicated effort to studentss and corporations. that is why the confidence in my statement that you yourself should come to any campus and talk to any student on the campus.

do not please have such a one sided viewpoint. i (and my friends) have failed to understand the reason why your article and other viewpoints are so one sided.

i am sure your journalistic standards would prevail.
Regards
andrew

just for records, i had replied to mridula on another site. again, adding the reply out here so that it could assist in your post debate. regards and thanks.

dear mridula, your questions are logical and i hope i can give answers to them; though it might not be the official one. here goes.

your first question is, why does iipm advertise full page ads and iims do not. there could be two straightforward reasons to the same as i see them. one is that iipm has seven branches across india compared to other institutes that have only one branch and need to advertise only once. iipm also has two sessions per year, that could further double up the already seven multiple on the ads (making it 14 times). and compared to the perception premium that fms or xlri might already have, on which i would not be able to put a figure, but a figure of double could be at least figuratively placed, making the number of ads to be at least 28 timesin a year.

if you additionally add the fact that iipm has to advertise for its bba programs also, apart from the mba programs (even tho many ads carry both together) now that would amount to almost one ad every two weeks throughout the year. now i really don’t know the number of times the iipm ad has come out - i really have not counted - but it is safe to say that my insti would be advertising around this average. that’s the first reason.

secondly, you ask that if an institute were providing such wonderful placements, students must be falling over each other to join it is your second question. i should say that that happens across iipm campuses. at the same time i should also clearly mention that while only around 40000 apply to iipm entrance exams, almost 3 lakh plus apply to iims, thus there is a huge difference between the application numbers between iims and iipm, and that difference is accepted by me. just for calculations (to be honest, not precisely, but just approximately) i was just aggregating the no of students in all the campuses in mba and bba programmes; the total students in all the seven campuses of iipm would be approx equal to 8000 plus. but you’ll have to factor in the fact that around 25% are bba students; still you’llhave a humongous 6000 or so mba. you’ll again have to factor in the fact that there are two batches etc etc.

now for your query on placements, it is a fact that around 25%of the batch doesn’t apply for placements. now i really don’t know how you would take it but i didn’t believe the figure myself till i became part of the placement coordination committee (i’m not the secretary tho, that’s brijesh prasad under a.sharma). almost 25% of the batch are sons and daughters of businessmen or people who wish to start their own businesses or people who are laterally placed before the last term starts. if one were to go by the companies that came this year, from sap, to oracle, to max, to a.paints and so on so forth, i can tell you this much that at least as far as my investigations could reveal, placements were really good. in one of my posts, you would’ve noticed that i wrote about rashmi not doing correct journalism. for example, one of her statements was that students got into hln and not HLL. she did not mention that hln (or hindustan levers network) is a division of HLL (hindustan levers limited) and that it was actually HLL that recruited the students? if an iipm student got into the nescafe division of nestle, would it be wrong to write that the student has been recruited by nestle. or should one keep writing only nescafe (which might sound a little inane)?

that is why i was somehow confused on why did rashmi write each and every statement so negatively. since i have been here, i have had almost around 15 ivy league professors who have come to iipm campuses and have taken seminars at iipm. when our professors met rashmi at her office and asked her why she wrote, apart from other false statements, another false statement that no such professor had come over to iipm, she responded that these professors only took seminars with iipm students and not sessions (??!!??!!)
you can ask rashmi the truth behind this statement of mine and if she really is honest, she won’t be able to deny even one part of this statement as our professor provided us all the details of his meeting with her that happened in front of three other people, including another journalist that rashmi knows herself.

the fact is, rashmi knows she has lied on more parts than one. and that is something that is so bad of a person who says she is a journalist.
she writes that there is no wi-fi in any of iipm campuses and that no student has any laptop. i believe her part-time journalist pulled a fast one on rashmi herself (because when i see her blogs, she sounds sensible; that is why i am really surprised she wrote this). all students have laptops provided by iipm and all students have access to wi-fi in all our campuses.
that is why i requested rashmi to come herself to the campus and ask any student (any student) whether the student has a laptop or whether the campus has or doesn’t have a wi-fi connection. if rashmi were to do that, i am so sure she would withdraw her own comments because that is truly not journalism.

mridula, coming to your final point where you say that institutes like iit kanpur would not bat an eyelid if blogs were to write anything about them. if you write something about iit kanpur, the guys there are not going to bat an eyelid. neither would iipm bat an eyelid. but how would iit kanpur professors react if some journalist were to hire part-time journalists, take out a print journal (jammag is a print journal) and write false things about iit kanpur.

to quote the case of iit kanpur, you can ask any of the professors of iit kanpur how they jumped up at journalists when their center for enterprise technology (cet), a private company started by iit kanpur in collaboration with EL-NET (go ahead, ask IIT Kanpur professors, they won’t be able to deny even one word of it) left thousands of students across india high and dry after eating away a lot of their money. journalists wrote about how iit kanpur had usurped money of thousands of students. iit kanpur went up in arms agains many such net sites and journalists claiming that it was EL-NET that cheated students and that iit kanpur was just the testing and certifying agency.

the example i am quoting is for telling you that it’s not about iit kanpur or iipm, but about a journalist writing false things (or being given false articles by her hired hands). if there were something that could be attempted, it could be a truthful debate rather than blog slur which is what i feel is neither ineffective nor adequate.

regards and wishes,

andrew

I have been following this IIPM episode for the last couple of days, and whatever these chaps say (oracle, andrew, etc) about IIPM, every T, D and H in the country knows how is this insti. Whatever little respect IIPM commanded has also gone after this event.

BTW, never knew that legal notices can be sent over email!! Will check upon my lawyer friend, whether its normal or not, and will update you upon it as soon as I get a reply from him :)

Long live the bloggers community!! Good work guys!!

Also, just found out that Gaurav has left his job at IBM, because of this issue. I can't say whether he did right or wrong - but I must sya that I love the spirit - the spirit of revealing the truth! You all rock guys!! :)

Just got a reply from my lawyer friend. He told me that legal notices can indeed be sent via email. They are recognized by law.

I'm a lawyer and I've never heard of a legal notice being served via email in this country. It's rubbish if they haven't followed it up with a formal documentary legal notice, certainly duly notarized and necessarily with proof of receipt. That's why these things are sent registered or couriered, AD.

Sure the email could be a sort of 'heads-up' that a legal notice is on the way, sort of a communique to give you a chance to cease and desist before you receive the notice (and all is well again).

As far as the the question as to whether IIPM's charge will hold in court, as a good lawyer, I can safely say, who knows? The thing is, it seems they're trying to make out a case of defamation. A good defence against defamation is that the published material is the truth and is published in the interest of the public. If it is the truth, then the respondent would have a decent defence against the charge of defamation, since it obviously is in the interest of the public to know the truth about an educational istitution's claims.

The point is really not much as to whether the legal notice is valid. They can always send the respondent a proper one, provided it is within the period of limitation, assuming there is one.

Yes, it certainly smacks of 'legal bullism'. If the stories about IIPM are true, then they'd be the last people to want to go to court over this.

That is the exact question / angle I am researching. The US media has picked up on what bloggers say for about a year now. The Indian Media has not. This event might change things for us. I will keep updating my post as the Media Scrutiny gets better and lets see if the Indian bloggers get the credit they deserve and if the media will even pick up the issue.

It is disgusting that the students and the faculty/authorities of a reputed (self acclaimed) institute behave in such an unruly/filthy/unethical manner. Whenever such things as reported in JAMMAG by Rashmi come into light.. they can be classfied either as true or False... If they are true then she ahs done a good job.. and if they are false then IIPM should counter her by countering her allegations in the same media and then proceed legally against her thru a defamation case.... but what the hell IIPM students and faculty/authorities think.. they can supress anyone and anything about them thru might..... U R GROSSLY MISTAKEN MR. A.C..AND CO.
Come out with the facts and figures.. we want to see where u stand. Stop all this crap of using muscle power....

I dont know-based on the things which are present online-it looks like JAM and this former IBM guy are connected. These things are making me think that its something else

There was a rumor that JAM accepted bribe from amity to disrepute IIPM

All of a sudden everyone comes and start WWE Vs. ECW crap. Looks like a setup if you ask me.

IIPM didnt prove anything-because its better off proving in court. Think about it-whats the gain proving their genuine stuff here-blog isnt a legal ground where you can fight for justice-its bullshit. You can only prove it in the court. Frankly speaking i think JAM magazine has lot of muscle power (or it could be a prank pulled by a kid-height of Indian's 'JOSH'-everyone loves to brag.

Everyone is claiming to be MBA student after IIPM controversy started up-wow thats pretty hilarious too. Who the heck wants to put their nose in somebody's business. And by the pattern which is followed by indian commentors-it looks like either they have no job to do, or they are just JAM'S paid goons.

Frankly speaking-this is started by a local magazine and then students. Then it is fought online. Seems to me that JAM must have known from their sources that students find out about IIPM online-so they planted all this over here.

I have seen 'so-called genuine' people coming from Gaurav's side-IIPM is quiet. Frankly i think its better if IIPM is quiet-who wants to fight with kids. If they claim that they are genuine people-then they will just present in court rather than blurrting it to the kids online here.

The Indian bloggers dont make any action-why? simple. We couldnt know who is genuine and who is not. Who the heck will leave a job for a blog post misunderstanding. IIPM informed his boss and his boss asked him. Then he claims legal notice online. Hello-are you sure its a legal notice-or did they write the warning in a formal manner-where is the texts of this so-called notice. How come its not around here online. If he claims IIPM slapped a notice-i dont see it in blogs-or advertised.

I see only bloggers talking about this-and a local magazine-which doesnt even run much. Some months ago i even read in mumbai mirror's blog corner that Amity paid bribe to JAM-to disrepute. Another confusion.

Students and ex-students of whatever college they are from should keep their mouth shut. Are you sure you all have ethics. Seems to me IIPM have ethics by proving in court rather than bitching with the kids. Okay-IIPM was over exaggerating with the advertisements-but isnt that what all product and package providers do around the world. None of these so-called stuff has made any newsflash-rather its all a 'theoratical conspiracy'.
I am not at IIPM's side-but if people around Gaurav who are claiming to be mba graduates and acting like this-seems to me they dont have the 'MBA EDGE' and ethics for that matter. Any fully qualified mba graduate would use words like crap and shit to prove their....expose. Online people arent genuine themselves-what makes people think that bloggers (bot just indian) can make a 'heroic and legendary' legal impact. Like i said-its "WWE Vs. ECW moment sponsored by a product" publicity stunt if you ask me.

Great